Mending Walls

Part 3: Transcending Walls (Education)

• Hamilton Glass • Season 3 • Episode 3

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Hamilton Glass, Taekia Glass, and Caitlin Black discuss their roles and they collaborate together to create deeper connections to the education space. In particular Caitlin, an adjunct professor and Ph.D candidate at VCU has used the Mending Walls project as the basis for her community centered learning approaches with her classes. She also served as the Mending Walls intern for the 2022 season which allowed her to experience different facets of the project, from developing and hosting workshops to reaching out to neighbors to garner neighborhood participation. 

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Hamilton:

I don't know, you quantify the effect that this work has. Right and not necessarily with the community, but with students, which I think is even more important, right? It's the people who are going to go out into the world and use this and in different ways.

Narrator:

In May of 2020, the citizens of Richmond, Virginia took to the streets to protest racial inequality, police brutality, and the monuments to Confederate generals that line our historical streets and city parks. As a result, African American artists and community activist Hamilton glass chose to create a public art project that brings together artists from different cultural backgrounds to paint murals that start conversation, and heal the divides between us. That project is called mending walls.

Hamilton:

Hey, everyone, this is Hamilton, glass founder and creator of the many wolves project. And today, I'm here with Caitlin black and takia glass. Thanks for being here, guys. Thanks for having me. Thank you for having me. Yeah, absolutely. So this is exciting. We are talking about the Richmond Hill projects with which we just completed. Taekia. And Caitlin, I'm going to let you introduce yourselves first. Before we kind of get into it. So Caitlin you go first, I'll let you just let everyone know who you are and what you do here in Richmond. Hi, everyone. I'm Caitlin black. I'm a PhD candidate and instructor at Virginia Commonwealth University here in Richmond. I was a public school art teacher for eight years prior working with students grades pre K to 12. And as part of my coursework at TCU, I am also the intern with mending walls. No, thank you. How about you? Miss glass?

Taekia:

I'm Taekia glass. I am the co director of mending walls. And my main role is to make sure that everything is organized and scheduled and running smoothly so that we can bring all this great work to the public. Got to do that you do.

Hamilton:

I guess you could honestly say that you run mending walls? Sure, pretty much pretty much. So yeah, I know. Again, this is takia. This is your second year running Mending walls with me, Caitlin, I don't think too many people know you. And you know in that Mending Walls universe. So I want to start with you. I want to kind of ask you how you got involved with mending walls and when you first heard of it.

Caitlin:

So I moved from San Diego, California to Richmond in the summer of 2020, July 2020, to be exact. And I was interested in the public art scene moving here. I had heard a lot about the murals in Richmond and how there was a great art scene in the city here. I was excited. And moving in in July with the protest in full swing, I was really it piqued my curiosity that there seemed to be murals popping up everywhere. And I knew that there was a strong public art scene here. But it seemed to be happening very quickly and multiple in my neighborhood. So I was like, where are these murals coming from and found out about the mending walls project through googling where these murals in my neighborhood were popping up from. And I thought it was amazing. The empathy and connection element really just perfectly summarized everything I think about with public art. And so I attended a civic talk. That was my first time really seeing Hamilton talk. And I reached out to you afterwards and said just sent you an email about my admiration for your work. And also how do we get this into schools because I just think it's so important as an art educator, that we're utilizing this project in an educational capacity. So you were kind enough to not only respond to my email, but then call me and talk to me for an hour. And in that conversation we learned we're both from the Philadelphia area that the Philadelphia mural arts program had played an influential role in our understanding of public art and the capacity to involve community and community engaged art. And from there, I've just been involved ever since I guess I'm showing up at the murals to volunteer and then slowly becoming more involved because my dissertation chair and advisor Dr. Courtney Wolfgang, who is now at Rhode Island School, of Design, we miss her dearly. But I was in Richmond, and told me about Taekia Glass. And I had to meet to Taekia glass because she is amazing. And, of course, Courtney was right. And I met Taekia at the Sankofa community garden in 2021. And then approached her about being an intern with my coursework, and here we are. That's awesome. That's a that's a lengthy story.

Hamilton:

So, no, I can remember you approaching me in 2020, when the you know, that initial mending walls project was happening. And the fact that you were from Philadelphia, to be honest, is what really inspired me to reach back out to you because I knew that you, or at least I knew that you saw what I saw in public art, if you will. And Philadelphia has been such an inspiration to me. And in regards to community engagement, even before the Mini was project is something that I've kind of like, idolized in my work, here in Richmond. So when you said that to me, and also just the fact that you were working in education, I just, I felt as though like the mending walls project in general, was something that could be a huge tool for that, and just your passion and talking to you within that I was like, Oh, we've got to stay connected. Because you possibly could do things that I could not being so busy, just with the production side of mending walls. So that's amazing. So I know, Taekia and you for this year 2020 To 2022 Taekia, and you worked heavily on just making everything happen at Richmond Hill. So it's a key, I want to kind of ask you what that process was like, once Caitlyn approached you about being an intern and just setting up the project for this year?

Taekia:

Yeah, I mean, I think like you like, as soon as you talk to Caitlyn, like you recognize the passion, and just the energy that she has. So that's been great to work alongside. So with Richmond Hill, and really with anything, I think when we started when Caitlin I started working together, it was really around sort of the community engagement side of things. There's the smaller, you know, just like, helped me get this little thing done and helped me get like, you know, this little thing done. But then when it's time to sort of really sit down and hone in and focus on the community engagement pieces, you know, what is this workshop going to look like today? What is the logistics behind that and stuff? I think that's where she's been super helpful, just from an educator educator perspective. You know, in being able to design workshops, make sure that, you know, there's a good baseline, and then it's building on things and connecting to the larger theme of the work. So I think that's been really great and helpful for me, because I'm a collaborative person. And so while I could do those workshops by myself, like no problem, it's just not as much fun, quite honestly. And so I like the mix of our two, two energies a lot of days when I'm struggling Caitlin's like really upbeat and positive. So that was always helpful to sort of have her.

Hamilton:

Yes. So in this year, Richmond, this Richmond Hill project district, transcending walls project was a lot more involved in terms of workshops, and I'll say it pitching the mending walls project to the community of Richmond Hill. The first two years, especially the first year there, there wasn't much it was more reactionary manuals is more reactionary. The second year was a little bit more intentional in terms of like working with organizations who had already been working with social and racial justice. And then this year was full on focused on, you know, at the nonprofit Richmond Hill. And so that looked very different, which brought about and I'm smiling, as I say this with brought about a lot of challenges, in terms of like, how we, how we secured that wall with Richmond Hill, and that partnership in general, and just being a good steward and collaborator with that. So the project, not just the artist had to, you know, be collaborate, but the project had to be a collaboration with Richmond Hill. And so any struggles with that to hear I just just would love to hear the struggles, the struggles in that because, and me being a part of that I can chime in. But there there there was a there was just a lot of struggles with that. And I think that came from doing it for the first time. So I would love to hear your take on it.

Taekia:

Yeah, I mean, I think the Yeah, I think the biggest difference with this is that, you know, last year, every organization that we worked with, we already had great relationships with, you know what I mean? It's people that we've worked with over and over again, and all of our different facets of, you know, work since we've been here. And so there was already, there's already a trust or respect, you know, a personal relationship there. So there wasn't a, there wasn't really a need to, you know, as you said, sort of, like pitch this thing, right? Or whatever, it was just like, hey, we're thinking about doing this, and they're like, let's go. So I think with Richmond Hill, um, is a little bit different. Because, you know, we, we have, I think you and I both have, you know, worked with Richmond Hill in some aspect, right. Very minute. Lee though. So I think, and I know, for me, the folks that I was connected to there before, some have, you know, gone on and, you know, are in are no longer there. And so, I think there were, there were more relationships that needed to be built this year around. And so I think it was, you know, it was a little challenging, right, because, you know, there's, there's a whole board of folks that we had to sort of meet with, and, you know, and discuss and, and other groups. And so I definitely think, you know, that trust building process was more than what we've ever had to do. But I think out of it, you know, we've gained a really great relationship. And I think it just exercised a lot of skills that maybe, you know, we haven't had to use in a while,

Hamilton:

Especially patience, you know, when getting into this, and once, you know, we had some folks on Richmond Hill on board saying that this was a great idea, one of the things that I realized was that like relationship building, knowing that like, usually when I'm working with someone, they're, they're all on my side. And this time, it was a lot different. And having to explain, explain that like, this is part of the process, we're going to go through this process together, I don't know what the end result is. But we're going to make that happen together, was kind of the hardest part of this to me, and especially dealing with a organization that has residents who live there, right, like, so, we're not just doing something on this building that lives in the public, we're doing something on someone's home, we're also doing something at Taylor Hill Park, which is this park that, you know, belongs to the city. So having to Steward with Parks and Rec and work with Shamar. And it was just this journey of, of understanding and trust building, like you said, that made all of this happen.

Taekia:

Yeah. And I think patience is I think patience is, is a good thing, to sort of highlight, right, because what we thought was going to be, you know, sort of quick, you know, quick process, like we're used to, really, you know, we hit quite a few, like, stumbling, I won't say stumbling blocks, but just unexpected things that really sort of slowed us down. And so I know, for me personally, it's like, once I skate, you know, once I get a schedule in place, like, I want to go with it. And you know, this definitely, like sort of had to like replan, and pivot things, which was, which was a little bit difficult, but the thing that in terms of another perspective, from that, in terms of like, patience, and understanding and empathy, right, is the thing about, you know, Richmond Hill is an institution that's been here for a while, and is a custom, you know, to, to operating the way that they operate. And, you know, had to constantly like to sort of re re tell myself that like, Okay, this is, this is a new process for them, not necessarily for us, you know, because we're used to working this way. Not everybody is used to working, you know, with immediate trust, with immediate collaboration with immediacy of, you know, all of these wonderful things, so that we are unnecessarily and so just having to constantly re tell myself, like, Okay, gotta slow down. I'm gonna have to say it again, gonna have to reiterate this again. And you know, and, you know, eventually the light bulb clicks, right. But that's just that. That's just the process of it. So I think it did definitely exercise increase.

Hamilton:

It was happening so much by the end of it was a by the end of by the time like, we were really scheduled to paint. I was like, whatever happens next year happens next year, there were just so many obstacles. That was me, but there were just so many obstacles that I was just like, it's going to go with the flow, but I did find reassurance and those Richmond Hill associates that we were working with every day were the same way. By the middle of it. They were just as invested as we were, and we're trying to find solutions with us the whole the whole time. So kudos to them. But I have to ask you, Caitlin so interning in this and I'm not sure if you've ever interned with another art the organization No,I got to kind of get your perspective on that. Like, how was it? I know you felt the roadblocks to in the challenges to what was your, I guess, what was your takeaway from it? But were you stifled by any of those things?

Caitlin:

I will say it was eye opening, even as someone that thought they had a pretty good idea of how mending walls was operating, and listen to all these podcasts and encourage my students listen to all these podcasts.So hearing the backstories prior, because of this documentation, you think you have some concept of how things work. And it was very eye opening to see how many moving parts we're working with, I think, particularly with this project with the location of the wall, and how it wasn't just one, you know, wasn't one property. It's Richmond Hill, but it's also Taylor Hill Park, and it's in a neighborhood. And there's a school near, like, nearby, there are so many dip apartment buildings that, you know, I was communicating with apartment buildings, trying to encourage people in the community to get engaged. So I think just recognizing what community engaged work really entails. And understanding why people don't do it. Because it takes time. And it takes effort. And it takes patience. And it's hard. So I think it's super valuable and very rewarding when you see when you're at this point where you can say, what an amazing journey. But the journey is difficult and not always easy. And so you can understand why community engaged work doesn't always happen in ways that it should.

Hamilton:

Yeah, absolutely. And you just brought up something really interesting in regards to like, having your students listen to the podcast and getting into many walls. Could you explain what you're doing as an adjunct professor at VCU, and running some of your classes around that mending walls concept?

Caitlin:

Sure. So in 2021, was the first semester back on campus because when I moved here, everything was virtual with COVID. And that was also why mending walls was really important to me, because being someone new to a community, it gave me the only real sense of community I had, because I wasn't even in person on campus wasn't allowed to be. So in 2021, it was a first semester fall that we were able to be in person. And I was really excited. And typically within this course that I was teaching, the students engage in local schools as part of their coursework. But because of COVID, and restrictions that were still in place, they weren't allowing the student volunteers to go into the classroom, they basically we're only allowing practicum and student teaching, students do the work and everyone else they were like, we're trying to keep people out of schools to keep things safe. So I was doing some creative imagining and was like, the many worlds project would be perfect. So that's when I connected with you both to see if it would be okay with you if I incorporated it into the coursework. And I developed visual journal, prompt reflections for students to engage with throughout the semester. And then each individual selected a mural that they were drawn to to create curriculum for. So the curr iculum is just some basic entry points. And these are foundations of art education students, they are just thinking about potential studio activities for teachers or community, we were actually really focus on community and how good lessons can be scaffolded to any age level. And that community expands beyond K to 12, even though that's what they're getting their certification in. I think what I started seeing and their reflections and responses was how it gave them an opportunity to think about asset based approaches to education, and thinking about the strengths and assets that already exists in the communities that you are entering to teach in. And that's been the most rewarding part of it. Of course, the curriculum is cool, it's great to see them, engage with the murals, and think about how people might engage with them, but just really focusing on the community engagement portion and asset based approaches in education, where often there's deficit based purchase, so I think, hopefully preparing them to enter with an asset based approach and the manuals project gave us the tool to explore that.

Hamilton:

So that's awesome. I have to say, Caitlin, I'm So thankful for you. Like you are, again, I said it a little bit earlier, but you are doing the thing that I would love to do, but don't have the time to do. And also not even just on the production side of that on that side. But the the fact that you share that work with with us, but also heard that you are using this for your dissertation, right? How does that play into into this as well.

Caitlin:

So I have to credit the amazing art education students at VCU shout out.And seeing their thoughts and their engagements and their beautiful artistic reflections in the visual journals has been inspiring to me and has really influenced me as an educator and how I approach education. And as a result of the manuals project, so my dissertation work is going to be looking at community engaged murals, community engaged pedagogy and community engaged art teacher preparation. So pedagogy, academic term, but kind of the combination of theory and practice coming together. And just looking about looking at how sometimes there's also deficit approaches to public art. And so there's kind of this overlap with education, which makes community engaged murals are really cool teaching tool for what I've learned. But I think particularly with the mending walls project, which is why that's the focus of my dissertation is the social and racial justice portion, because we're also preparing educators to go into schools and work with diverse populations of students, and recognizing that representation is important that, you know, encouraging students to have awareness to the world around them and stand up for for issues. So I think the murals are a really great access point for that, particularly these murals, because there's, there's such strong messaging within each of them. And the podcasts have been the most amazing part of that, I have to say, because they can listen that my students can listen to the podcasts and get a better insight. I mean, the documentary is obviously amazing, too. And the winning, but the podcasts, break it down just by that wall, and hearing the stories that go into that can really influence how they share that information with their future students or community.

Hamilton:

Yeah, no, I 100% I always say that when, especially when I'm presenting how the podcasts are like the pinnacle of the project, because you can't, you can see a mural and you can go experience it. But you really won't get all the intention unless you actually hear from the artists, which is what the podcasts are all about. The last thing I want to do is kind of wrap this up, I usually in these, these podcasts by saying, asking the artists how their mural has added to the conversation of many walls. But what I want to ask you all because you all didn't do any murals, I want to ask you all is like what do you see to the future of for the future of mending walls? And how do you think educationally this can be ramped up, if you will? Like how do you think we could get more students and teachers honestly interested in many walls. And I will say there are so many teachers who are interested in many walls, even beyond Richmond in Virginia, and I've gone on a lot of different talks outside of the state, and all of them have been through education. So um, I mean extremely thankful for that. But I really just want to kind of hone in on how we can get more people interested in that, and also get more Caitlin's. And I say that it's funny, but like, I say that, but there are so many teachers out there or educators out there who are using manuals that I would love to be able to share that like I would love be to be able to share how educators are using many walls in classrooms. And I always find out like way after the fact. And by happenstance that, you know, a teacher is using minimal. So if you're a teacher, and you're listening to listening to this podcast, and you have used mending walls, please reach out to us and let us know how because we would love to be able to show different ways and kind of create this kind of network of teachers and educators who are using it and how they're using it. So yeah, that was I kind of went off a tangent on my question, but yes, Uh, you want let's start with you, Taekia

Taekia:

Yeah, I mean, so I think we've got a good like foundation for that in the past two years year or two, you know, we've done, we've worked with, you know, University of Richmond partners in the arts program, create a curriculum there that's accessible statewide, you know, and then also did it with VPM. So there's a workshop, I think, available online, that teachers can access with tools and things like that. And so I think part of that work is continuing to sort of collectively collect these items, and then house them in a place that's accessible to educators across the country. And, you know, I think that's the work that I look forward to doing with Caitlin the most is sort of figuring out how to sort of keep these conversations going in different places, bring different teachers to the table, and making it a universally accessible tool. So I think there's like some curriculum design, and then like we need, you know, but I think that's what that's what I hope for this, I think that's the way that the conversation continues to live in a non sort of an anon tipping point, type of moment, you know, like we had in 2020. You know, I don't know when that will come back around again, not that I necessarily want it to, but maybe, but maybe we needed to, we probably do. But outside of that, you know, once people have sort of settled back into regular patterns and ways of being that aren't that aren't sort of reactive grab towards things. I think this is a great way to sort of keep the conversation alive and sort of creating those ripple effects. As teachers are using them transferring to students in community spaces.

Caitlin:

Well, I'm glad you made the shout out to teachers, because I think that there's a lot of work happening that we necessarily don't even know about, especially now, since you have been a keynote speaker at multiple art education, state conferences. It's so interesting to me. Last year, I was at the National Art Education Association Conference in New York City. And I was talking and people are asking what you know, the work, what are your dissertation work focus on. And people know, it's like, I meet people in other states, they're like, Oh, I know, I've heard of Hamilton glass. It's just amazing to see the work, traveling and having an impact. And I think the documentation that you've done around the project is incredible. Because it, it, it allows it to travel, right? It allows other people to see what this kind of work looks like. And so I think, I think there's just so much room for potential growth. And I really just see nothing but more amazingness coming out of this project. And I hope to continue to stay involved because I feel really passionate about it. And I'm grateful for the opportunity to work with you both together in Hamilton, I just have to say thank you, because it's really, it's really, it's changed me for the better. So I think I think it can have the same impact on other educators if it hasn't already. And I love to see the ripple effect of this project. I think that's one thing that has come out of the coursework, and engaging with students at VCU. We're actually giving a presentation on it at the National Art Education Conference this year, on the ripple effect of Beloved Community Engagement, and our focus is on the mending walls project as the catalyst for that. So I think the ripple effect will continue.

Hamilton:

That's awesome. Well, we are really thankful, just as thankful for you, Caitlin, and I'm gonna say it again, I know I just said it. But if there are any educators who are using the work, please reach out to us and share because we would love to amplify your voice and show what you're doing. And that really, honestly, is the only way that this project is going to continue to grow.We don't plan on being the catalyst for it. We just want to amplify, if you will.But anyway, thank you both, Caitlin and Taekia for joining me today on this podcast. I really appreciate it. And thank you. That's all I can say is thank you. Thanks. Thank you.

Narrator:

This podcast was produced by Pam Hervey and Hamilton glass with production support by 19 Red. For more information on the 2022 mending walls project, please check the website or the show notes in this episode. And don't forget to subscribe to hear all the episodes about the mending walls project on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts